George Galloway - From London to Gaza

[faceless]

Thing is, I just don't trust Hamas, or any other government for that matter. If, for example, Britain was attacked by an external force and people around the world who offered to help just gave the money to Gordon Brown, would you trust him to be fair about who got what?

As far as I can see, the only people who will really benefit from the cash are the politicians. Of course, the rest of the items, most notably the ambulances, will, I'm sure, be used and appreciated by the general population.

[luke]

but how would you feel if in your scenario people from outside of britain decided they didn't trust the british government and wouldn't deal with them, just made them irrelevant, worked around them and ignored them?

it seems weird to me that the west made such a thing of palestine having elections, and when they did and voted for who they wanted ( or against who they didn't want ) the rest of the world turns around and says, well - we don't really like that choice so we're not going to deal with them - we said you could have the elections, and we said you can have these parties to pick from - but now you've picked one, well, tough!

as crap as our democracy is, other countries don't have a say - they deal with the government that was elected. same in america, the americans elected bush - we dealt with bush. they've elected obama, we deal with obama. why shouldn't that hold true for others? i mean imagine we said we're not going to deal with the republicans ( or democrats now ), but we'll deal with cynthia mckinney and the greens,! the americans would be like fuck off!

[faceless]

On principle you're right of course, but I still see Hamas on a day-to-day basis as nothing but a paramilitary organisation and, although I recognise the need for them to defned themselves, it strikes me as being like the IRA or UVF running NI in the middle of the 70s.

If they genuinely do strike a deal with Fatah for the good of the people as a whole then I'd have no problem at all though.

The group I've mentioned before - www.gphrc.org - is independent and use the money raised to provide funds for education, which they give directly to individuals whom they've met.

[luke]

i don't see them as a paramilitary organisation as you do, like vivagalloway said earlier, hamas have a great record for their social programs - 80 to 90% of hamas' funds go towards health, social welfare, religious, cultural, and educational services - i don't know if the ira were anything like that!

i too hope that a deal can be struck, and that this time it won't be undermined like that last time by fatah working with the israelis and americans to try to oust hamas.

[faceless]

Here's a frame from the opening scene of 'Inside Hamas'.

The IRA did do a lot to bring about the current conditions in NI where people are now treated far more equally than they were 20 or 30 years ago. There seem to be a fair amount of parallels between Palestine and NI, though one major difference is that in Ireland they've had things like for 300 years whereas the Israeli settlements have only been there for 60 years.

Hopefully it won't take that long for some kind of deal to be struck that benefits the people as a whole...

[luke]

that picture looks a bit like the military parades we have here in plymouth with the returning 'heroes' from iraq and afghanistan, except they're less well equipped, and are covering their faces to avoid being identified and assassinated, much like i remember the ira doing and probably for the same reasons

[faceless]

How many political parties around the world have their own military wing though? They need to find some way of separating the two.

[luke]

how many political parties operate under military occupation?

anyway, the aid that the convoy has taken is just a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the help the people out there really need. 100 vehicles divided by a population of 1.5million equals one vehicle of aid per 15000 gazans!

[VivaGalloway]

[faceless]

I'd prefer them to be more like the fairly powerful Sinn Fein. And I'm sure that's why they've been involved in talks with Fatah.

Would you prefer a piric victory?

[VivaGalloway]

[faceless]

I'd suggest, for a start, that they do a deal with Fatah to create a security force which brings in both sides and which can be seen as fair. Justice has to be the basis of any society. No justice, no peace - and all that...

[luke]

thing is though, hamas did a deal with fatah once before, and what happened? america and israel armed and trained fatah and they attempted a coup against hamas!

[faceless]

hmmm, yes, it is rather a bollocks...

The only answer can be in some sort of compromise - the stalemate benefits no one.

[luke]

i'd disagree, the stalemate is benefiting israel, illegal settlement building continues, fatah have been doing israels work in crushing resistance in the west bank and the media debate is on anything but the cause of all this - israels continuing illegal occupation.