Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

pirtybirdy · Post by **pirtybirdy** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:03 pm

[web]https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 749183.ece[/web]

I wouldn't want my country to open up that can of worms, but okay...I hope it works out for all involved. Better England than here, that's for sure.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:04 pm

There have always been efforts to allow civil matters to be adjudicated by members of various churches. This is about civil cases where both parties agree to it - it doesn't affect anyone else in any way what so ever.

pirtybirdy · Post by **pirtybirdy** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:08 pm

True. We have tribal courts for the Indians here, it seems to work well. Also most courts take up mediation methods before bringing things to the court itself. I am not fond of Sharia law. I just don't think it will be a good thing for women, but as long as a woman can refuse to use it and go through British courts, then I suppose all is good. Unfortunately in other countries, there is no alternative. I hope it works out well for all involved. I still wouldn't want it here. I hope it never does come here.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:19 pm

I'd be prepared to bet that those same mediation services are already at work in America. The synagogue/mosque/temple deals with all the personal details and then put the papers forward for an official stamp of approval from the court.

Why wouldn't you want it there if it only affects people who choose it though?

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:33 pm

they already have similar things here for jewish people, so if the muslims wants to go with their own thing it doesn't bother me.

but i would like a lukes law were weed is not only legal, its mandatory!

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:55 am

faceless wrote:Why wouldn't you want it there if it only affects people who choose it though?

To play Devil's Advocate: Scientology only technically affects the people who "choose" it, yet I don't want it here, or anywhere for that matter. And sometimes choose needs to be in quotation marks, if to un-choose it would mean total abandonment by your family and friends.

Post by **faceless** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:12 pm

Fair points, but I doubt many people who had already married in a particular church would decide later that it wasn't capable of handling the divorce. If that's the type of community you've grown up in then no matter what the faith is there's always going to be trouble breaking free completely.

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:08 pm

funny you mention scientology ... i was in town earlier and and there was this little stall covered with books by ron hubbard, with a sign above saying free stress test manned by two people with clipboards, surrounding them was about 20 odd people with signs and banners warning you the stall was to do with scientology!

just out of interest nekokate, why wouldn't you want scientology here? i mean, they're not going to force you to sign up, if people want to believe in whatever they believe, or in god making the earth in 7 days or elephant headed people with lots of arms or whatever crazy religion or cult people choose and i guess supposedly get comfort from - why do you care?

SpursFan1902 · Post by **SpursFan1902** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:25 pm

I live in the mecca of Scientology (this is where they first put down roots) and I think the biggest problem I see that that they get church status for tax purposes. They have huge quantities of properties and don't pay any property taxes on them. Legally they have have managed to be catagorized as a church, but I think alot of people would consider them a cult not a church. I discussed it with my World Religion professor a couple of years ago, and he placed them in a cult status, not a religion. So indirectly it affects me because now my property taxes and county taxes go up because there is now so much land that is being used but not taxed.

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:25 pm

Why do I care? Haven't you seen the numerous documentaries on Scientology? It's a disgusting, profiteering personality cult that actively seeks the complete social and mental destruction of any of its ex-members who dare to speak out about it and anyone in general who tries to raise awareness of this. They have something they call "Fair Game" which means that anyone who promotes a negative opinion of the cult is hunted and baited and harrassed into submission.

You say they're not going to force me to sign up, but the way they recruit their drones is through very deceptive means - the personality tests and the erroneous E-meters. They don't tell you what it's all about until you're suckered in and then it's too late. You might argue that they won't force you to join, but just try and LEAVE once you have! You might find that a little more difficult.

It's a vile organisation - not a religion. You seem to be suggesting that you're ok with cults.

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:21 pm

SpursFan1902 wrote:I live in the mecca of Scientology (this is where they first put down roots) and I think the biggest problem I see that that they get church status for tax purposes. They have huge quantities of properties and don't pay any property taxes on them. Legally they have have managed to be catagorized as a church, but I think alot of people would consider them a cult not a church. I discussed it with my World Religion professor a couple of years ago, and he placed them in a cult status, not a religion. So indirectly it affects me because now my property taxes and county taxes go up because there is now so much land that is being used but not taxed.

thats interesting, so in america, or your state, are they classed as a religion then? and whats the different between religion and cult? who decides?

nekokate wrote:Haven't you seen the numerous documentaries on Scientology?

no, although i did see a bbc reporter loose it once, but i didn't learn anything about scientology - and i've no real desire to either

nekokate wrote:You seem to be suggesting that you're ok with cults.

i just have trouble distinguishing between a cult and a religion, they're kinda both the same to me - i'm looking at the dictionary definition of both, and i could put scientology, christianity, islam, judaism; all of them, in either. except that weed smoking one of the rastas. thats obviously legit

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:41 pm

luke wrote:thats interesting, so in america, or your state, are they classed as a religion then? and whats the different between religion and cult? who decides?

They are recognized as a religion in the United States by the Federal Government. So in each state they are a religious organization. It's the Federal Government that decides which organizations are churches/religious entities. If they are recognized by the Feds as such they get all the tax breaks and rules that therein apply to religious groups.

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:21 pm

thanks skylace

did it cause much controversy when it happened?

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:43 pm

luke wrote:thanks skylace did it cause much controversy when it happened?

It was in 1993 that it was recognized by the IRS. It was controversial then and it still is.

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:26 pm

thats quite some time ago, i don't think i'd even have heard of it back then! sorry to keep asking questions but i was wondering, what sort of process had to happen for it to be recognised as a religion? like was there some sort of body that assessed it and ruled, yeah, its a bona fide religion? i should google really ... in fact i will