Inside Hamas

Post by **faceless** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:21 pm

[web]https://www.channel4.com/culture/microsi ... cpage_box2[/web]

I'm watching this just now and I'm sure many of you reading it will want to see it too... I missed the first five minutes, so I'll try to get it recorded on the +1 option later.

major.tom · Post by **major.tom** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:00 pm

I'd really like to see this. Thank-you, faceless.

So much of what we see/hear about Hamas in the media is purely one-sided -- invariably including the qualifier "militant." The fact that they offered and adhered to a truce for years without any sign of reciprocity from Israel is never mentioned.

Of course one can't condone everything they do. But I think they really did try to redefine themselves as a political entity when they ran for (and won) the Palestinian election. The decision to shut them out (by Canada, the U.S., E.U. Israel, and Fetah) was actually a blow to any prospect of a political solution.

Post by **faceless** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:36 pm

the link is now in the Streaming TV section... I think you may have an altered opinion after seeing this - I certainly have.

luke · Post by **luke** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:40 pm

thanks for this faceless, downloading now - i'd meant to watch it but totally forgot

how has your opinion changed?

Post by **faceless** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:46 pm

I've changed my opinion because it seems clear that Hamas aren't benefitting the people it was supposedly set up to help. Cleaning the streets of 'rubbish' is the language of fascism, even if that comment was made by some young guy.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:55 pm

[web]https://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 337321.ece[/web]

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:18 pm

i've not watched it yet, but heres a posting from medialens about it;

This isn't the most biased film shown on the Palestinian issue. It included a number of people seeking to present the deeper side of Hamas, vis-vis its origins and why it finds itself engaged in this kind of internal conflict. But, as ever, the key context of why all this is happening - namely Israel's oppressive occupation - is either missing or only superficially noted.

Most immediately, Israel's “withdrawal from Gaza” was not contextualised in any way that explains why they 'pulled out', and how control over Gaza merely took a different form. The word “withdrawal” suggests an end of Israel's direct involvement. But Gaza is still, effectively, occupied. Israel controls its borders, 'economy', power supplies, airspace and most other aspects of its actual existence.

“Hamas seized power in a coup”, the film asserts. That's a very questionable reading of the conflict between Hamas and Fatah. There is ample film/comment on the factional fighting, but no serious explanation of why Hamas felt compelled to purge Fatah forces, given their collaboration with Israel, the US and other Western interests.

The commentary also talks about the “test of Hamas's democratic intent”, as though this was a place where the 'civilised' process of political life can easily proceed. As is evident, Gaza is in a state of chaos, its people living in starvation, siege-type conditions. Hamas is trying to manage an emergency situation under staggering pressures. This is not a conventional state or polity able to function as 'normal'.

Again, this is the key reason why we see Hamas and Fatah supporters clashing in the film. Where is the contextual explanation here that Israel has willfully cultivated this divide-and-conquer strategy?

Neither in any of the snapshot 'historical background' do we find discussion of the actual illegality of Israel's overall occupation of Palestine and appropriation of land.

The film notes how many Gazans are being encouraged by Hamas to adopt a more Islamic identity. But it fails to emphasise that Gazans actually voted for Hamas – mainly in response to the desperation of their situation, dissatisfaction with the 'peace process' and Fatah's collaborationist politics.

As illustrated by the scenes outside the mosques, some Hamas elements are, indeed, acting repressively – and, perhaps, undermining their support base in the process. But, again, the film fails to identify the pressures that are creating this; in particular how Hamas are seeking to stave-off Israeli and US-backed Fatah.

Alongside comments from Azzam Tamimi (author of Hamas: Unwritten Chapters) and others, the film did allow for some 'balance', as in the view that, contrary to Western claims, Hamas are, indeed, willing to talk about peace. It also aired the opinion of the Arab Media Watch spokesman that the West should and must engage with Hamas as a legitimate party: “You negotiate with your enemies, not your friends.”

However, what impression of the Palestinian case does this film suggest for the general public? Despite some efforts to 'get inside' Hamas and the issue itself, my feeling is that it still conveys a negative slant on the Palestinians as a set of warring, violent factions – rather than a people brutalised and placed at each others throats by a cynical occupier.

and some might be interested in this recent debate;

Press TV recently had a debate on the 'Siege of Gaza - Why are the Western Leaders so Silent?' on their Agenda programme. This is a recording of the discussion with Yvonne Ridley in the chair.

Panel consists of Dr David Halpin of the charity www.doveanddolphin.org Chris Doyle of CAABU, Yossi Meckleberg, Middle East analyst and Dr Azzam Tamimi, Middle East Analyst.

A far ranging discussion of the present day conditions, causes and effects of the conflict and how a solution may be found. (48mins)

https://www.presstv.ir/pop/wmp.aspx?id=38871

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:30 pm

I'm not sure what to make of it. It was definitely interesting.

It would be very easy to take the findings of the documentary and use them in Israel's favour, and there was a lot of latent anti-Semitism in there (people shouting "You're worse than a Jew", etc.)

Pretty depressing how Gaza has disintegrated.

Salim201 · Post by **Salim201** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:40 am

A brilliant red herring for Israel. I don't see how documentaries like this do anything constructive at all for addressing the main issues of the conflict. Its like a documentary about the factions within the ANC during aparthied, without even mentioning the level of repression indiginous south africans faced. What is the purpose of a parochial documentary about Hamas??!

there is one simple question, are the palestinians being deprived of their rights? Nearly all the international community agrees that is the case, lets talk about why only the US and Israel dispute that. Also one certainly doesn't need to be a supporter of Hamas to be a supporter of Palestinian rights.

major.tom · Post by **major.tom** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:43 am

I haven't watched the documentary (yet) but you make some very good points, Salim.

Salim201 wrote:Also one certainly doesn't need to be a supporter of Hamas to be a supporter of Palestinian rights.

I consider myself a "supporter" of Hamas in the very limited sense that they were elected by the Palestinian population to represent them. So I see it more as supporting Palestinians in general than supporting Hamas specifically.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:28 pm

I agree with Salim.

Israel couldn't have created a better documentary (from their point of view).

There is a total lack of context, and Fatah's complicity with Israel (including not mentioning the thorny "right" of return which is integral to any final peace
settlement).

Indeed, the Arab peace proposal (which Hamas would agree to) was turned down by Israel.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:36 pm

nekokate wrote:It would be very easy to take the findings of the documentary and use them in Israel's favour, and there was a lot of latent anti-Semitism in there (people shouting "You're worse than a Jew", etc.)

I note one clip IN ARABIC with the above words in a sub-title.

Is that what you mean ?

I hate to be pedantic, but as we saw with "wiping Israel off the map", translations can be manipulated.

She could have been shouting "You're worse than the Israelis"
{in Arabic, the word used can mean either, e.g. "You're worse than Israel [or Jewish State]}

Is it anti-Semitism to call Israel as the "Jewish State" ? Isn't that one of the reasons Hamas is boycotted because it REFUSES to recognise Israel as A JEWISH STATE.

i.e. Is the Zionists "latently anti-Semitic" by referring to Israel, i.e. as a Jewish State ? If not, they why is it anti-Semitism for Gazans to do the same ?

p.s. An error in the report is that it said Fatah recognises Israel as a JEWISH STATE. It does not, because that would be to be in support of apartheid.

Post by **faceless** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:42 pm

The video clearly shows Hamas thugs battering people in the street, if that's what you think is Israeli propaganda then that's your choice. What I saw was the majority of average people wanting their land back and to be able to live a peaceful life. Hamas are clearly incapable of politics without a weapon, so bollocks to them and power to the people.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:55 pm

The documentary was out of date. Hamas' popularity is greater than ever (especially after the rest "break out").
Indeed, I predict a Hamas election victory in the West Bank.

Regarding "Hamas are clearly incapable of politics without a weapon" : You mean you believe in unilateral disarmament of ALL weapons ?
Name me any government which doesn't need weapons ?

p.s. Children and pregnant women in UK can now be TASERED ..

Post by **faceless** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:27 pm

Name me a good government that attacks its people on the streets when they are clearly offering no threat?