Girls said murdering friend felt right, court told

Post by **faceless** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:32 pm

call me old-fashioned but I like to hear both sides of a case before making a decision.

Marcella-FL · Post by **Marcella-FL** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:55 pm

Are you considered remorseful if you are sorry you got caught?

Anyhoo ... back to the "fear" issue ... I don't think it is a matter of being p.c but I think fear is the incorrect word. I understand consequences for my actions but don't "fear" them. I am not affraid of getting a speeding ticket every time I drive so I don't speed. I understand that if I speed and get caught I will cause financial repercussions to my family - so I don't do it. I do the "right" thing because that's what I do. I haven't killed the neighbor's dog for pooping in my yard because it's just not what you do if you are civilized! - not because I am affraid she would retaliate and kill my cats.

Actually, there isn't a whole lot I realistically "fear" ... I live in Hurricane-ville but I don't sit in fear every hurricane season. I know I am prepared for it. I know there are rampaging lunatics in the world but I don't sit in fear worrying if one of them is going to come and invade my home.

I try to raise my children with a strong sense of caution and ethics. Be careful of who you trust and don't do anything you'd be hard put to explain later. If you are willing to deal with the repercussions then go ahead.

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:05 pm

GG_Fan wrote:
Skylace wrote:[What they need to have is what you are saying they need to know that there are consequences for their behavior. Plain and simple.

What types of consequences do you think there should be ?

It all depends on the individual and the situation. That's way to broad a question.

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:09 pm

Marcella-FL wrote:Are you considered remorseful if you are sorry you got caught?

Anyhoo ... back to the "fear" issue ... I don't think it is a matter of being p.c but I think fear is the incorrect word. I understand consequences for my actions but don't "fear" them. I am not affraid of getting a speeding ticket every time I drive so I don't speed. I understand that if I speed and get caught I will cause financial repercussions to my family - so I don't do it. I do the "right" thing because that's what I do. I haven't killed the neighbor's dog for pooping in my yard because it's just not what you do if you are civilized! - not because I am affraid she would retaliate and kill my cats.

Actually, there isn't a whole lot I realistically "fear" ... I live in Hurricane-ville but I don't sit in fear every hurricane season. I know I am prepared for it. I know there are rampaging lunatics in the world but I don't sit in fear worrying if one of them is going to come and invade my home.

I try to raise my children with a strong sense of caution and ethics. Be careful of who you trust and don't do anything you'd be hard put to explain later. If you are willing to deal with the repercussions then go ahead.

Very well put. And I agree about fear being the wrong word. I also don't think it's being PC at all about it. Fear is actually an emotion that we enter that raises our anxiety levels.

You made excellent points.

I personally think these girls need to be closely looked at. Their home lives need to be checked out and they need a lot of help.

Marcella-FL · Post by **Marcella-FL** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:17 pm

I also think some people are just born with a proclivity to just "do wrong" ... I am the youngest of 6 children and we were all raised by the same parents ... so how is it one brother was just an absolute hellion and small time criminal when he was younger? (No murderers among us that I know of ...)

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:23 pm

These girls knew the consequences of their actions .. they knew they are killing someone. They didn't fear the consequences, so they satisfied their curiosity as to seeing what it would be like to kill someone.

Just knowing the likely consequences without fear, or a strong sense of right & wrong, leads to bad things being done by people.

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:25 pm

GG_Fan wrote:Looks like the defense lawyers putting a "good spin" on the story.

Yep. But claiming that an early guilty plea is a demonstration of remorse is a little bit far-fetched. More likely an early guilty plea is a desperate attempt to get as lenient a sentence as possible in the face of obvious guilt.

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:16 pm

Marcella-FL wrote:I also think some people are just born with a proclivity to just "do wrong" ... I am the youngest of 6 children and we were all raised by the same parents ... so how is it one brother was just an absolute hellion and small time criminal when he was younger? (No murderers among us that I know of ...)

That's always the big debate. Nature vs. nuture. I tend to believe they work together. And I agree some people are born just more aggressive and such.

I have an interesting article I need to dig out as they have been doing more research on "morality" and how it can actually be attached to how the brain is wired and the way we access information.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:56 pm

Skylace wrote:I have an interesting article I need to dig out as they have been doing more research on "morality" and how it can actually be attached to how the brain is wired and the way we access information.

Since I believe the wiring is done whilst in childhood (i.e. growing up), even if they find a physical cause for bad morality, it is still likely to be as a result of the environment during childhood.

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:29 pm

GG_Fan wrote:
Skylace wrote:I have an interesting article I need to dig out as they have been doing more research on "morality" and how it can actually be attached to how the brain is wired and the way we access information.
Since I believe the wiring is done whilst in childhood (i.e. growing up), even if they find a physical cause for bad morality, it is still likely to be as a result of the environment during childhood.

The wiring of the brain isn't just done through nuture it is also nature, regardless of what you believe. That's why it's important to have the best enviornment possible. Not to mention foods also. And also more recent studies have shown that the brain begins to rewire again during puberty. Which really explains the fact that when a parent says "I don't know who they are anymore" it's true. The brain is working and building new pathways during this time and it causes the mood and personality changes.

EDIT: The journal article I have is a bit longer then this but here is some information on the study https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthn ... wsid=65035

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:46 pm

Skylace wrote:The wiring of the brain isn't just done through nuture it is also nature, regardless of what you believe. That's why it's important to have the best enviornment possible. Not to mention foods also. And also more recent studies have shown that the brain begins to rewire again during puberty. Which really explains the fact that when a parent says "I don't know who they are anymore" it's true. The brain is working and building new pathways during this time and it causes the mood and personality changes.

We are actually (for once) in agreement .. Genetics (and whilst in the womb) clearly has some impact [i.e. nature].

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:50 pm

GG_Fan wrote:
Skylace wrote:The wiring of the brain isn't just done through nuture it is also nature, regardless of what you believe. That's why it's important to have the best enviornment possible. Not to mention foods also. And also more recent studies have shown that the brain begins to rewire again during puberty. Which really explains the fact that when a parent says "I don't know who they are anymore" it's true. The brain is working and building new pathways during this time and it causes the mood and personality changes.
We are actually (for once) in agreement .. Genetics (and whilst in the womb) clearly has some impact [i.e. nature].

I truly believe they work so closely hand in hand. That is one reason I gobble up twin studies (of those raised in different homes especially) because unless we do start cloning people and raising them in differen't enviornments (which brings up a whole slew of other ethical issues) it's the closest we can get to testing two of the "same" people being raised.

I see both nature and nurture as being equally important. There are times one will out way the other but when you look at the whole picture they are together.

That's why I have said these girls need to be closely looked at. Not only their genetics but also the environment they came from.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:52 pm

Skylace wrote:That's why I have said these girls need to be closely looked at. Not only their genetics but also the environment they came from.

Yep .. and you know I have been emphasising the environment .. because I believe the environment has deteriorated.

Post by **Skylace** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:54 pm

GG_Fan wrote:
Skylace wrote:That's why I have said these girls need to be closely looked at. Not only their genetics but also the environment they came from.
Yep .. and you know I have been emphasising the environment .. because I believe the environment has deteriorated.

We'll just have to see. It won't surprise me if at least one of them comes from an either overbearing background or totally uninvolved background.